Hi, I am new to these forums but not new to polymer clay. I have been using Premo mostly, but have heard so many good things about Kato clay.

However, I have had so many problems with Kato clay and was wondering if any one here has had the same. I purchased Kato clay directly from Donna's site, Prairiecraft. I purchased several colors and found that each one was practically unconditionable. I bought them for a class, and everyone else was getting these soft, smooth conditioned pieces and mine just continued to crack all over the place. No matter how many times I tried to get the pieces together and warm them up, they would crack in the pasta machine.

It did not matter which color I worked with. After that fiasco, I have been extremely hesitant to try Kato clay again. And I really like Donna Kato!

Is her clay really hard to condition and do you need to add something to every bar of clay to get it conditioned?       

Thanks, Joan

Hi Joan, welcome to the forum! I hear ya with Kato clay. Mostly I use Premo, but so many people swear by Kato that I do buy it from time to time. Conditioning it is a pain. I usually have to add some diluent and pound the stuff into submission. Not only that, but as it crumbles it totally mucks up the pasta machine and I invariably have to take it apart to clean it up.

I've heard that Kato is the strongest of the clays and I'll even overlook its cheap-plastic smell (which seems to dissipate after it's cured). But conditioning shouldn't have to be an ordeal all the time. I haven't tried the new formula yet. I'm hoping the general softening that happened with Premo will make Kato less of a bee to condition.
 

 Hi Linelle,

Thanks for replying. So it wasn't just me, or a bad batch. Any clay that is that difficult to condition is not worth it, imo. And you're right, it really messed up my pasta machine like no other clay has.  It doesn't matter how strong the end product is, if you can barely get it to the point of finishing. Is the new formula out already? Come to think of it, I heard it was. I know they were changing it to make it more environmentally safe, but do you know if they were also trying to soften it up a bit?

Joan 

The crumbling's so bad I have to hold my hand under the PM rollers just to catch them all. I've bought several 1-lb. blocks in the past, so I'm motivated to salvage them. I've broken them up, added diluent, pounded them on the garage floor, and successfully got everything working again. But it was a huge pain. It must have been really frustrating for you when this happened at your class. When small blocks of clay act like this, I often toss 'em.

To be fair, I haven't tried the two new formula blocks I bought a couple of months ago, because I already have opened packs in those colors (black and white). I'll pass along what it's like when I use it.

 It was awful during the class because we were all instructed to use Kato clay in the colors of your choice. I didn't have anything else to use. And everyone else, except maybe one other, was having no problem and it sort a felt like a nightmare.  I finally was able to get some workable pieces out of it to make the project item.

What I wonder is if our experience is typical, how could they have put a product like that on the market? Donna uses her own clay. Has she experienced that herself, I wonder. Then again, when I was in that class, everyone seemed so surprised that my clay was so unconditionable-is that a word? Apparently it is not a problem with all of their clay. Did you and I happen to get our clay from the same, awful batch?

Joan,

I am using a lot of Kato clay myself, and I can confirm that it is difficult to condition.  I've also heard (and it seems to be my experience as well) that this brand has more lot-to-lot variations than other clays.  I think this is because it is stiffer to begin with, and then if the clay gets exposed to higher heat (in a warehouse somewhere or in a truck on the road), it gets partually cured and therefore even more difficult to condition.

 I am willing to put up with these inconveniences, though, because I like how the finished items made with this clay look like.

Here are a few things that may help you with conditioning this clay:

- Warm it up a bit before starting to work with it (at list sit on it for about 20 minutes, if there are no other options);

- Cut slices only a little bit thicker than the highest setting on the pasta machine;

- Use your roller first to further soften the clay before putting it through the pasta machine;

- Add a few drops of liquid clay at a time until you have your clay nice and smooth.

Also, you may want to precondition your clay before the next class (work it into sheets before the class).

 By the way, I love the works you show in your Etsy shop, especially the ones in Julie Picarello's style.

 Thanks for the info. and the tips Eugena. I may give her clay a try again. I did precondition my clay before the class. We were expected to do that. I had trouble the first time but was able to get some flat sheets. Wrapped it good in plastic wrap and zip lock baggie. Put it thru Pasta machine during class, kept crumbling. And this was with every color. I tell you, it was like a nightmare!

I love Julie Picarello's stuff. I was very fortunate to take a class from her early this year. She uses Premo, which I like, so that worked out ok. 

Joan

Joan, I don't think these conditioning problems are isolated incidents.

Eugena, just curious about the ways in which the finished results made with Kato you prefer. I'm sure a lot has to do with the technique involved, but I'd love to hear in what particular ways Kato makes a difference.

If I had a bunch of this hard-to-condition clay and access to no other clay, then I'd just suck it up and figure out a way to condition it. Otherwise, it certainly squelches the creative process for me.

Hi Joan!

The re-formulated Kato is definitely softer than the old (from my limited experience with it).  Are you familiar with Jana Roberts Benzon and her amazing cane work?  She leaves her 1-1b blocks in their wrappers and whacks them with a hammer to soften them before she puts them thru the pasta machine. You might want to give that a try!

 Hey Julie! I was in one of your classes last Feb. in Maryland for CFCF. Can't get there this year, but I am so happy I got to take your class.

I would like to give the Kato clay a chance again, but if I get it I have to order it so I wouldn't just want to try 1 bar. I'd just hate to get stuck if it was all too hard. I suppose they would let me return it then.

 I also took one of Jana's classes that week too. I remember hearing her talk about the hammer thing.

It just seems that if it takes so long to condition, as Linelle says, my inspiration may get lost.

p.s. I do like your work better than Jana's though, but don't repeat it.

Joan   

The hammer thing definitely works.  You can feel the heat start to build up in the clay, which is a good thing, because it's friction heat which means the clay is starting to soften and move and become more pliable. 

 I don't use Kato but the few times I have it wasn't like you described. If you're not caning I don't see what benefits you are going to achieve over using Premo. I hope you are able to use what you've already purchased.

 True, I don't really do any caning anymore, not like I was years ago. I thought if the Kato was far superior to Premo, I would like to start using it, but, as I have mentioned, I had very bad luck with it.

I still think I have the scraps left over from the class I took last year. Or I may have thrown it out, because it really was unworkable.

Joan 

A big hello again to you Joan!  I'm sorry to say that I am *awful* with remembering names, but I know if I saw your face again I'd remember you immediately.  Sigh!

Sorry you won't be able to make it to CFCF 2009 - Kathryn has outdone herself with the class offerings.  I'm totally jazzed about finally meeting Victoria Hughes, as she was one of my inspirations when I started with mokume gane.  But there will always be 2010 or beyond, right?

And my thanks for your kind words...which I will not share with Jana <grin>.

A very Happy Holiday to you, Joan!

 Oh Julie,

Never in a million would I expect you to remember me or my name from all the people you have met during all of your teachings! I am just happy that you and so many others are so willing to share your talent with the rest of us!

It's so funny, when I saw your 1st post to this thread, before I saw your "signature" I saw your avatar. And I thought to myself, that looks so familiar like Julie Picarello's work. Wow, whoever this is, she does a good job with Julie's work. Then I saw your name and duh! it IS Julie Picarello, not an imitator like me. I was just surprised to see you on the forum, and being new to it, I have yet to meet all of the members.

Anyway, unless something changes last minute, it would really be hard for me to make CFCF 2009. Oh well, the next one hopefully! 

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays!

Joan 

I'm resurrecting this thread because I ordered a bunch of Kato Polyclay before I read it, and I now think I'm getting pretty good at conditioning it, even if I am a newbie.  I can't compare to other polymer clays yet, but here is what I've learned from working with the Kato.  I recently got a pasta machine, so I've developed a whole routine for conditioning.  For re-conditioning within a week or so I can go straight to rolling sheets, but not right out of the package, and I've now had a bunch of packages from at least three suppliers, one of which was the "old" formula.  I find the darker colors tend to be a little harder to condition and also that the first piece of clay in any given session is harder and wonder if some residual plasticizer begins to coat my hands, the rod and pasta machine as I work.

1) What it seems to want to most for conditioning is pressure.  It really wants to fragment into a zillion bits when I first start working with it.  Just leaning on a slab with the acrylic roller helps with this,  but I've also learned not to stress out when it turns into a pile of crumbs. I start by pressing on it, then I try to roll a snake.  If it wants to crumble,   I let it come apart, brush all the crumbs to the middle of my work surface, and then squash them back into a single mass with a fair amount of finger pressure.  Then I plop it around the board picking up the smaller crumbs, pressing down pretty firmly. Might have to do this 2 or three times.

 2) When I can roll a snake without it "exploding" I roll it a little with the acrylic rod and put it through the thickest setting on the pasta machine.  If it basically holds together, I skip a setting and run it through again.  Then I work it a few times at that setting and step down again.  The quicker I progress to thinner settings, the faster it conditions.  When I fold it, I fold the edges to the middle a lot of the time, instead of just folding it in half.  This stops the edges from being crumbly fairly quickly.  I also rotate it 90 degrees almost every pass.

 3) Once I've gone down a thin setting with the clay coming out in a solid sheet with smooth edges (maybe 10 passes through the machine) I finish the conditioning by rolling a snake, folding it over, twisting it and rolling again.  When it handles this without cracking, I roll it into a ball and call it conditioned.  It doesn't take that long, either, it just takes a leap of faith that this crumbly stuff will stick together if you beat on it a bit.

Once it's conditioned it seems to stay in that  state for several hours.  The next day I only have to pass it through the machine a few times and it's good to go.  I've been happy with the clay itself.  The colors mix great, it's easy to bake (at least I don't seem to have made any mistakes yet), it's easy to shape once it's conditioned, and I've been able to make stamps, canes and handmade shapes pretty successfully,  I'm still finding my way with the medium, but I don't think that's the fault of the brand of clay, although if I hadn't read this forum and one of Donna Kato's books (the Millefiori one, which I'd highly recommmend) I think I would have given up in despair before I got my first piece conditioned.

Hope someone finds this useful!  

 I have definitely found a SIMPLE way to condition her clay that works for me.

I had almost given up on it, but was determined to find a way since it canes so beautifully.

I cut my slices just a tad thicker than the thickest setting on my machine.

Run 1 slice through- run another through (separately) - only 1 slice at a time

then run the two together-

then run this again, once or twice WITHOUT adding or folding anything.

Just a plain run until it smooths out, and  those rough patches calm down.

Then add another slice that was run thru once. Keep running it singly thru until smooth.

Works for me- but of course I have a motor- so I can do this very easily.

Let me know if it works for you!!!!

 LoveBeads, I find it is often too crumbly to even do that!  when I run a single slice cut off a 2oz block through, it fractures into a pile of crumbs -- but wadding it up as I described gets it past that stage.

 Thanks for the tips. I definitely had the old formula! For me, if you have to go through that much work to condition it, then it is not worth it. I have had experience with Premo and Fimo soft and I have much better luck with those clays from beginning to end. Also, I do not do any intricate caning anymore, but when I was years ago, the Premo I used and even the Sculpey III held up well. I still have some canes from back then and they are still lovely and firm.

I do have Donna's millefiore book, it is great! Most of the canes she does are simple and for me, the Fimo Soft is working well.

Joan 

 Love Beads,

That is basically the way to condition all or most polymer clays. But with the Kato clay, at least the old formula, you could not just simply roll it through the pasta machine in slices. It would crumble completely, as DressageWoman said. My experiences with it were more like hers. Perhaps you have the newer formula which I have not yet tried.