Hello, 

I'm trying to set up a new Meco Midget torch to city gas.  I've got the natural gas connected and it will light, but the flame keeps going out.

My idea was to use natural gas with compressed air...somewhere I read that was possible with this torch. 

When I do manage to get the pure natural gas flame going fairly strong, when I add any air, it goes out immediately.

I'm wondering if I need an oxygen tank instead of just air.  I think this is what they use at Revere jewelry school in SF. 

If anyone has experience with this setup, I'd really appreciate hearing about it.

Thank you 

Hi Grisby,

I received your email but couldn't figure out how to reply - Oh computers!

Compressed air will just blow out your flame. You need to get tank of oxygen. The compressed oxygen will make natural gas hot enough to solder and melt metals.

I produce aprox. 1,700 pieces a year and with my 125cf tank I need to have a fresh cylinder delivered every six months. There are much smaller tanks available. Talk to someone at your local welding supplier to see what you need. You will need a regulator for the tank to govern your line pressure. It will have two dials - one to show tank pressure and the other to adjust line pressure. Natural gas usually comes in at 4 lbs. and I set my line pressure at around 4-7 lbs for the Meco torch - so the needle just lifts off the stop pin.

Make sure you drain your oxygen line at night and back out the line pressure screw so the diaphragm will last longer. When you turn on your tank in the morning double check the pressure screw before turning on the tank in case you were half asleep last night and your regulator will last a long time - they can be rebuilt but it's expensive.

As with all tanks of compressed gas you need to chain or strap the tank to something that can't be knocked over - a bench leg or a beam in the wall works well. If a tank is knocked over and the handle breaks off those little suckers become torpedoes that can go through a concert wall.

I hope this helps. Call me if you have any questions (770-645-2050). I talk faster than I type.

 

Judie Raiford 

I don't know if you are using this or if this will help you, but I have found in my search for a safe torch is the G Tech connector approved for use throughout the US. Their website is http://www.safe-t-gas.com.  Although this is a pricey piece of equipment, it seems to be the safest way to work out of your home. It can be purchased through Rio.  It is connected to your meter and attached to your natural gas line with a flash back connector by a licensed plumber. The purpose of the GTech is to boost the gas pressure- but- it also eliminates the need of having ANY tank inside the home.

So this product may help you with the problem you are having.

I'm considering this set up for safety. Maybe an over kill for a home jeweler like myself, but honestly?  What price can you put on safety not to mention home owners insurance.

If anyone can share personal knowledge or experience on the efficiently of the GTech connector,  I'm sure it would be a great help to everyone.

Kat

Hi Kat,

 I just looked at the G Tech. It looks like it's a gas pressure booster but it still needs the propellant of an oxygen tank. It is just to replace bottled gas (acetylene, propane etc) for studios that need the higher temps for casting.

Sorry, still need the oxygen tank for the Meco torch. How different is it from having an oxygen tank in a bedroom?

 

Judie Raiford

www.RaifordGallery.com 

Hi, Judie,

Thank so much for the information.  I'm wondering now where in the world I read I could use compressed air b/c now of course I can't find it on the internet anywhere.  :)

I have been to the Airgas store nearby and talked to them about an oxygen tank already.  The basic regulator usage sounds like the same procedures I'm accustomed to on an acetylene/air tank, so that's good. 

One question, though:  When you're referencing the 4-7lb pressure setting, with the needle just lifting off the stop pin, you are referring to the oxygen regulator, right?  My gas line just has an on/off lever and then the tiny knob on the top of the torch itself, no regulator or dials.

But I think I'll get a couple of flashback arrestors...they sound important. 

One other safety-type question.  Do you see any problem with mixing two torches on one solder job?  We do that at school all the time with two acetylene torches on one big piece. (two people also)  I'm wondering if I could ever use the natural gas/oxy torch with a rosebud tip and then add in a benzomatic propane or butane to do small casting....any thoughts?

Thanks again for your reply,

Grisby

Hi Grisby, Yes, the pressure setting is for the oxygen regulator. The gas line is just on or off and the flame adjustment is made on the torch handpiece. Flashback arrestors - good. Should have mentioned that before. Thanks. Two torches at a time? No problem. I still keep a little propane tank nearby. It's great when I need a big bushy flame for fusing large pieces. I switched over to Argentium about 5 years ago and do a lot of fusing. The propane is good for large amounts of gold melting too. A lot of my customers are bring me their old gold to reuse and since I no longer cast I just HAD to order a new ingot mould and a draw bench. Jewelers are bad tool junkies but what a fun way to make a living! Judie Raiford www.RaifordGallery.com

 Hi Judie, I am so sorry- I meant no gas tanks. Yes,an oxygen tank in your home will still be needed. There is no difference here. The objective is to remove the gas out of the house for home owner insurance and for a higher level of safety. I called the company today and they said that at times when usage is high, it keeps the flow of gas steady without failure. Yes, perfect higher temps for casting, but perfect for all applications as well, according to them. Also, NYC had a number of accidents and this was a solution, now required if you are a jeweler in NYC, according to the website.  Many great results if you can afford this, with no limitation on what you want to do, so it seems. What could be better than connecting to your gas line with a flashback connector at the meter. Although Oxygen is an explosive under certain conditions, under normal condition this would a relatively low risk and this is my objective. I had a fire in my home less than a year ago, NOT related to what I do. So it has left a lasting impression on me of what fire can do. I may be a little bit more cautious than others,  but I don't have 25 years of experience to fall back on:) WISH I DID!!!  Better to be safe than sorry.  I just don't want to experience fire again. Kat

Hi Kat, I'm sorry you've had a fire - that's got to be terrible! So far I haven't had a problems with my local fire marshal and my tanks. I admit to always treating gas and oxygen tanks with a great deal of respect. I guess I'm lucky that the natural gas that is piped into building to run my torch and heaters stays at a steady pressure. I treat the natural gas torch with the same caution that I do my gas stove at home. I'm better with the torch. Good luck getting the booster! Judie

I'm suspecting another reason my flame keeps going out (even before I turn on the air) is the tip.  I bought the torch with various N tips, but I was looking on the Tinman's site(https://www.tinmantech.com/html/all_meco_related.php#pro)

and it looks like I should have been sold OX tips for use with natural gas, at least according to this.

Is this what you've got, Judie?

Again, thanks so much for help and advice.  There is really so much information on line these days about metalsmithing, but it's hard to sift through, and of course there's nothing more valuable than the voice of experience.  Thanks again,

Grisby

I couldn't get the zoom to work on that site. I'll look at my tips when I get to work in the morning. Back to you tomorrow! Goodnight, Judie www.RaifordGallery.com

Grisby,

 

I looked at my tips and they are the N tips on both Meco torches.  Work fine for me!

 I just looked at my web site and found a photo of my soldering bench with torch and ox. tank. You may see the hoses I use are clear plastic hose from Home Depot. The red and green rubbery hoses are heavy and tiring to use - and I've had one blow before. You can see where I ran the natural gas line at the top of the photo and just connected my hose with a nipple and a pipe clamp. The galvanized metal at the back of the bench is my ventilation system.

 http://raifordgallery.com/index.php?cat=Image+Gallery&gallery[view]=8&image=1091

There are many ways to set up a bench and a torch system. This is just the way I do it. 

You originally contacted me off the forum but I couldn't figure out how to reply. If you'd like me to take some closeup shots just email me at raifordgallery@mindspring.com and I'll stop boring the rest of the forum.

Judie

 

www.RaifordGallery.com

What some are now using for oxygen are oxygen generators that concentrate room oxygen and then pump it to the torch. The generators are refurbished medical units and are sort of pricey but I guess soon pay for themselves. I have an acquaintance that is trying to get away from tanks in the studio.

Thanks, Judie,

Thanks for the information. 

I looked at the photo of your bench.  It's amazing how much you produce a year out of that little space! 

I will try the oxygen and hopefully the flame will stay lit.  I would like to avoid tanks not so much for the safety concerns, because I think I can just be careful/respectful of the equipment, but really more for the fact that it's going to run low at an inopportune time and then I've got to transport it to refill it.  Or schedule and pay for a delivery. 

Ah well, I'll just be glad to finally have a torch full time. Thanks so much for the info; I feel just that much closer to my goal. 

Grisby

Hi Grisby, Oh, my wounded ego. That photo is part of a 1,000 sq.ft. studio. Don't worry about running out of oxygen. The regulator dial will show you how much is left in the tank so you can schedule your refill at a convenient time. Have fun! Judie www.RaifordGallery.com

Thanks for the torch information Judie, you inspired me to join this forum.  

 

I've been thinking about using the Meco Midget torch with natural gas/oxy, mainly because I think it might be a better set-up for goldsmithing and for melting small amounts of metal, but I will keep my acetylene/air torch in case I need 2 torches for silver reticulation.    

 

Your gallery is fabulous and your studio is magnificent!  I've replayed the part of Hal's video showing your studio several times, but he moves the camera too fast to get a good view of your soldering station.  I've never seen such a huge studio! 

 

Edited:  I found your studio photos, and there is a perfect view of the soldering station.  I love to look at studios. 

I've been thinking I would need floor space for a drawbench, but after seeing yours set-up on top of a table, there is another tool on my wish list!  Surely the table needs to be very heavy or attached to the floor. 

Do you have two Meco torches, or do you use one torch at two different tables? 

 

 Hi Torched,

The 2nd Meco is for my studio assistant's bench. 

 

The drawbench just sits on the workbench - no screws or clamps needed. When not in use ( Ok, that's never) it can be hung up on the wall. It's lightweight aluminum but the construction makes it sturdy.  I bought it new on ebay and saved $50 - I already had a drawplate.

 

Judie

www.RaifordGallery.com 

Hi All,

My set up uses a G-Tec Natural Gas Booster for natural gas and an AirSep Oxygen Generator.  I was just too concerned about bottled propane and oxygen in my home so I went with these plus a Meco Midget torch with the N-tips.  I had some problems with keeping the flame on the the tips but adjusted pressure on both the booster and generator until I got what I needed.  They work great and it's a major relief not having the bottles in my garage.  I have been able to do just about everything I've needed including melting a small bit of silver to pour ingots.  I'm getting into casting now and am looking at the new rosebud tip for the meco.  It says it's for propane but do you know if it can be used for natural gas as well.  Most soldering/welding tools say that propane torches, tips, hoses can be used for natural gas.  So I'm wondering if any of you know about this new rosebud tip.  It'll sure be easier just changing out tips (and a longer handle) rather than adding a Y manifold, a second fuel hose and a different type of torch with rosebud off that gas booster.  See the new rosebud and the longer handles at www.tinmantech.com.

 Thanks!