Hello all,

Has anyone ever used a product called the Microwave Kiln (a.k.a. Art Box) to fire PMC?  If so, how did you like it?

Also, can you overheat a piece of PMC?  I ask because these microwave kilns don't have a peephole and I'm not sure how much documentation there is to specify how long/high to cook PMC to reach optimal temperature in the microwave. 

I think they were developed in the 90's and are used mainly in Japan.  There are some for sale on eBay.  Here's the link: http://cgi.ebay.com/Microwave-Kiln-Fuse-Glass-PMC-in-MicroKiln_W0QQitemZ180159800657QQihZ008QQcategoryZ75564QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Thanks for your time!
 

I'm not an expert on PMC mind you but since I began working with it in Feb/Mar I have been doing a lot of reading (and I mean alot) I have not seen that kiln mentioned in any book or catalogue so I would be very wary of buying it. Yes you can melt PMC. I haven't torch fired yet but I've read about people melting their pieces. Don't know if you can melt it in the kiln. Yes, $95 dollars is much cheaper compared to a regular kiln but if something sounds too good to be true it usually is. My opinion would be to not jump into anything you are not sure of. Maybe there is such a thing but I haven't heard about it. Alice

Hello.

My website is chock full of information about microwave kilns. I spent months researching where to get them and how to use them. This is the most comprehensive site of microwave kiln information on the internet.

www.microwavekiln.com 

I've never used the microwave kiln, but the insert looks alot like the hot pot set-up I've been using with my PMC3 for the past 1 1/2 years.  I don't know the sizes of the pieces you are making, but I've had really great results with my hot pot (I make charms and beads and even have a few rings I've been wearing for over a year, with embedded czs).  When I make the "larger" pieces (my rings or layered charms) I run the lot through the hot pot cycle a second time to ensure that the whole piece has been taken care of.  That's just what has worked for me!  Oh, and that means I've probably used my hot pot over 20 times with no sign of wear.  I save up my charms and beads until I have a full tray before I heat them.  As far as strength for these pieces, I've tapped my rings on a mandrel to shape them and stamped letters and designs into my processed pieces, with no breaking. 

Sarah

Thank you very much for your replies, everyone!  My only real concern with the microwave kiln was what I expected to be the lack of instructions on how to convert normal oven/kiln temperature settings to microwave power levels and cooking times.  But, lo and behold, there they are, right on Ruth's site.  Thanks, Ruth!  I'm going to give the kiln a try.  And, Sarah, I will definitely follow your advice!

Get it through my website instead of from Ebay and I won't have to pay listing fees there!  :)  (I am the Ebay seller).

Ruth 

I have no experience with a microwave kiln (I either torch fire or kiln fire). You'll see why after you read the post that Tim McCreight did on the Metal Clay Yahoo group ...

"I got one of these units when I was in Japan, and I urge people to
use caution here. The unit is a cylinder about 8 inches in diameter
and 6 inches tall, made of refractory clay and lined with some sort
of shiny black grains. One immediate problem is it is very difficult
to know how long to run it. If you consider that most microwave
popcorn packages say something like "Heat for one to six minutes,
depending on your microwave," you get an idea of how different the
units can be. If you are making a dozen identical pieces, and don't
mind melting or underfiring the first ten, you can determine the
proper time for that unique shape and get those last two right. Not
an ideal arrangement.

Of far greater concern, though, is that the unit has a small hole in
the top to vent the gasses, and these geyser out of that hole at
around 1000 degrees. Microwave ovens (and the cabinetry around them
in many kitchens), were never made for temps like this, so it is a
fire (and law suit) waiting to happen.

And if that's not enough, the unit costs around $50 and only lasts
for about ten firings, so even though it saves on buying a kiln, the
system is still far from economical. It would be terrific if we could
fire PMC in our kitchens, but at least for now, that's not going to
happen."

 Find FACTS at www.microwavekiln.com/KILNINSTRUCTIONS.HTM

Hi Ruth - as I'm sure you know, Tim McCreight's "Complete Metalsmith" book is pretty much the bible to many of us and he (and his opinions) are pretty well respected.  I'd be very interested in your response if you'd care to refute his specific claims as set out in Mollie's post.

If you will take time to read information at

www.microwavekiln.com/KILNINSTRUCTIONS.HTM

you can read my rebuttal to Tim's comments.

 Thank you!
 

Ruth,

Thanks for posting that link to your site. After reading the information though, I still tend to agree wtih Tim McCreight. I've taken several of his workshops and he thinks things through to the Nth degree. The microwave kiln makes me nervous. Plus, my microwave is not a counter-top microwave (it's mounted above the stove) so moving something that hot in and out could be dangerous. I'm glad that this firing method works for some people and I really don't have a need to use this because I already have a kiln and a torch. I just want people to be aware of the possible safety hazzards.

Ruth, I did review your website but I dunno........the idea of getting the kiln hot enough to fire my PMC is a bit of a concern but then having to remove it from the microwave while it's still that hot scares the bejusus outta me.  Plus, it's bad enough when I burn popcorn in my microwave, I'd be pretty sad to find a puddle of silver where my carefully crafted PMC item used to be.

I didn't see anything on your website refuting Tim's claim that the kiln can only be used 10 times, other than the letter from Deborah that says she used hers for 15 years but (a) it was a different type of kiln [I think] and (b) she didn't state how often she used it.  Did I miss something?

I know you sell these kilns Ruth but d'you actually use one yourself?

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

 I own and use 4 of them.

Look back at the discussion about the Paragon Kiln and the microkiln and the hot pot....and that it once carried a 3 year warranty......... 

 This was also part of that PMC Metal Clay discussion where Tim made his remarks, but everyone wants to ignore it:

To:
MetalClay@yahoogroups.com


Emie,

I was given one of these (except larger) maybe 20 years ago. It was my
first introduction to fusing. "Inexact" is the word I'd use for it,
but it certainly works with glass. I still have my first one, and have
several others that are unused that I've had for, oh, probably 5-6
years; two larger ones in boxes, and one tiny one as pictured in your
link. They sure do work, and might even be a good option for short
firings of metal clay . . . of which I'm not too familar with.

I found that using it you need to know EXACTLY how long to leave in
your item (keep a GOOD log book), and you must take into consideration
that -- like an warm oven -- it takes less time to "cook" than a cold
one. And like your own oven at home, you get to know your microwave
and the kiln well enough to semi-predict the outcome.

It's been fun, and up until I bought a real kiln, I used it for making
small jewelry pieces. I reused mine for 15 years, and the firebrick
did start to break down a little in the firing area. So, instead of
using fiber paper, I used a circular cut piece of granite (like what is
in pencils), and although it was messy, it cooled much slower than the
fiber paper and I never had any problem with breakage of the glass once
they'd cooled.

A prior post said that someone mentioned that it is a safety hazard.
Well, in all the years I used it I never had a problem and I did my
firing in the kitchen on the sink . . . under the counters. Maybe I
was just lucky, or stupid ;) , but I had no problems. I did dedicate
one microwave just for firing, and did not cook food in it.

I found them to be long-lasting, at least for the occasional craft
firing. Again, they are fast and fun, but you definitely have to stand
over them and watch to make sure the item doesn't turn into a puddle.
A cold firing, depending on the layers of glass, took about 10 minutes,
and a hot kiln took even less, so I really liked it!

But, you'd have to determine by your experience with clay if it will
work for you or not. It may be a good solution if just using a torch
will dry the clay . . . but again, clay is not my expertise.

Hope that helped, and let me know if you have any more questions!

~Deborah