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Students at Different Levels Questions
Last post 01-09-2008 8:42 PM by cnikita2. 15 replies.
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10-23-2007 10:09 AM
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Pisces
- Joined on 10-16-2005
- 'Round Philly
- Posts 260
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Students at Different Levels Questions
Hi there. I've been teaching at various LBSs for a year & a half now, & have started at my area art center now. Generally, the LBS classes are for specific projects, so we make that project during those 3 hours. It's held in the bead store where they have the supplies [usually].
Now teaching sampler courses at the art center is a whole different game. I have to give or email students lists of materials & supplies for each class & be very very specific. Then I have to keep my fingers crossed that they actually went out & got all the right stuff. ACK! I still drag loads of supplies in case they didn't, which is turning into a major hassle.
OK. The most difficult thing is trying to work w/ students who come in at widely disparate levels. I even have one 16 year old home schooler as well as a board member. I've told them & reminded them to bring note paper & pencil to actually take notes! Only half are bothering to do that. Those students seem responsible & able to follow directions, then write them down & refer to them.
But the other two are becoming difficult & demanding. Either they don't pay attention or they are not understanding what I'm saying, demonstrating, & drawing on the board. I even move their hands for them. And still... I'm starting to feel very frustrated. The 16 year old does not keep up w/ the others & constantly calls for my attention, even interrupting me while I'm talking w/ the others. It feels like she's 12. Now the board member wants printed directions for each project. All this for ~$15 per hour. I don't have the time & energy to meticulously write up directions for each class/project.
So, fellow teachers, what would you do? Thanks for any & all advice in advance.
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bodhikt

- Joined on 01-15-2005
- Sandy Eggo
- Posts 73
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Re: Students at Different Levels Questions
Flame Goddess:The 16 year old does not keep up w/ the others & constantly calls for my attention, even interrupting me while I'm talking w/ the others. It feels like she's 12. Now the board member wants printed directions for each project. All this for ~$15 per hour. I don't have the time & energy to meticulously write up directions for each class/project.
The 16 yo may be homeschooled for a reason other than her parents don't like public schools... and in any case, is used to being the sole focus of her teachers' attentions. Make it clear you are teaching an ADULT class, not providing daycare or a "break time" for her parents, and that any minors must be accompanied by a parent or guardian (who also pay to be in the class).
Make a general "outline" of what the class is to cover-- leave room for notes, and have a box of pencils available for those who 'forget" to bring one. E.g., an outline for a peyote st cuff:
Title: Peyote Stich Cuff Bracelet, by The Flame Goddess/URL
Beading level: Advanced Beginner-- must know basic peyote stitch technique; for more information on basic st, see: (reference book, etc.)
Materials: size___ seed beads in ____ colors, Fireline, _________ clasp
(writing space to list beads' colors/finishes, etc)
Tools: size ______ beading needles, kids' Fiskar scissors, beading mat, measuring tape
Optional: Ott light
Instructions:
1. Measure wrist:________ "
2. Measure clasp: ________"
3. Subtract measurement 2 from measurement 1: _______".
4. Add 1/2" to 3 for ease: ________" . This is the length (width) you need to make your cuff.
5. Class notes:
(writing space to bottom of page, + add a blank sheet).
Give them the handout when they sign up so they can get supplies/post what they need to bring; have additional copies to hand out at class. If you have a "drop in" class, give students a bit of time to buy supplies from the shop. The LBSs may be willing to provide "loaner" bead mats, lights, pencils, scissors....
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Pisces
- Joined on 10-16-2005
- 'Round Philly
- Posts 260
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Re: Students at Different Levels Questions
Thanks, Kaytee, for all your suggestions. They were wonderful! You were so kind to spend some time on this.
My current class is at an art center which has ZERO tools & supplies available. Unless I switch to metalsmithing & soldering. No scissors, pliers. etc. I need to have a starter discussion about that b/c I do believe they have some tools for the teen classes & for senior outreach. We should be able to borrow them since I was the one who ran around & got them.
As far as the 16 yo home schooler, I plan to specify that my classes are for 18 & up. I really didn't plan on teens, let alone teens w/ learning disabilities. Adults w/ ADD are tough enough. Have you ever had a student try to load beads on a thread w/ NO needle using pliers?
I have been sending out emails w/ supply lists & pre-class instructions. Half of the students didn't open theirs, including the home schooler who sent me an email w/ questions. I had pleaded w/ them the week before to check their emails. I feel like I'm baby sitting the adults too. It's getting me discouraged.
I like your general outline w/ fill-in-the-blanks. This coming week we're tackling wire crochet. OUCH. I may have aimed too high w/ most of this group. This past week we were doing tubular bead crochet, & before the class started, I made the mistake of telling them to buy #8s. I had no idea how inexperienced they'd be. But at least I started a #6 sampler that they got to try. If students are not seed beaders, #8s seem impossibly small in their hands.
O well, I'm learning my lessons for the next round! Thanks again.
sher
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bodhikt

- Joined on 01-15-2005
- Sandy Eggo
- Posts 73
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Re: Students at Different Levels Questions
Flame Goddess:I plan to specify that my classes are for 18 & up. I really didn't plan on teens, let alone teens w/ learning disabilities. Adults w/ ADD are tough enough. Have you ever had a student try to load beads on a thread w/ NO needle using pliers?
I've taught kids younger than 16 who did just fine in a mixed aged class (we did a little square in peyote st, using 6/0 beads, Nymo D and sewing needles); I think the youngest was 6? Mainly, she helped her grandmother, who was taking the class-- threaded the needle for her, and fetched things for her. She did give up after a few rows of the peyote st square she was making-- bored-- and gave it to her grandmother to finish for her while she went off to play. The couple of teens in the same class were very attentive and no trouble at all, and even helped the seniors (again, mainly with such things as re-threading the needles).The "trick", though, was that this was a class at church, and the kids were either related to one or more of the adults present, or in some way very well known to them. Also, no LD/ED problems...., and no, never had anybody try to load beads on thread with pliers... but one of the ladies in my class got frustrated with the needle coming unthreaded, and was trying to weave without one....
Flame Goddess:I have been sending out emails w/ supply lists & pre-class instructions. Half of the students didn't open theirs, ...
Do you have some sort of sign-up sheet? Have the list available then, too. Or if they sign up during the current class, give them one AND tell them what to get/do at the end of class. It won't guarantee they'll be any better prepared, but they won't be able to say they didn't get the lists/instructions.
Flame Goddess:This coming week we're tackling wire crochet. OUCH. I may have aimed too high w/ most of this group. This past week we were doing tubular bead crochet, & before the class started, I made the mistake of telling them to buy #8s.
Hopefully, at least they know how to crochet... preferably, crochet with thread.... Once upon a time, I taught a wire crochet class. I did use 6/0s... on 28g craft wire, and the project was an "amulet bag" done in dc, with a chain st neckstrap. Pre-requisites were being able to crochet and to pre-string beads on a spool of wire; I also had some pre-strung spools for sale for "drop ins" and loaner hooks. Of about 15 people, 4 had never crocheted, 1 "used to a long time ago", and a couple had never used anything smaller than worsted weight yarn. A couple of others came to class with the beads loose; both ended up buying one of the pre-strung spools, after it finally sunk in that, no, the beads don't get put on by sticking the hook through them, and that it takes TIME to prestring. And a couple learned the hard way why they were supposed to bring a STEEL hook....
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trysch
- Joined on 06-15-2004
- Posts 3,054
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Re: Students at Different Levels Questions
Can you sell kits for each project? Or for the entire semester -- make it part of the fee -- and offer only one or two colors. What classes have you taught in this sampler besides the wire crochet?
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Pisces
- Joined on 10-16-2005
- 'Round Philly
- Posts 260
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Re: Students at Different Levels Questions
Ummmm, NONE of the students know how to crochet, but one had done a chain stitch necklace w/ pearls in 26 ga wire w/ me during the previous 4 week class.
This was a 4 week class in "Fibers & Fiber Techniques" where we tackled a one-knot macrame bracelet that uses waxed linen, a kumihimo necklace w/ 8 rolled silk cords & a center focal, tubular bead crochet w/ #8s [next time it will be #6s], & a wire crochet bracelet or necklace this week. I started w/ 4 students, but this last week will only have 2 due to conflicts in their schedules.
Since these classes are at an art center, I have to write my course descriptions months ahead for their printing/publishing deadlines. Often this is before I've finished the current course & gathered feedback on what worked for those students. The art center handles the mailings & advertising, sign ups, money, etc. I cannot contact the students myself until they show up & sign in to my class book & give me their email addresses & permission to use them. So I am forced to rely on the center's office staff to send out supply lists to the students who sign up. For this course, they sent out the list for class #1, but neglected to send out the lists for classes #2 & 3, which I didn't find out about until later.
I've now taught 3 different 4-week classes at a much cheaper rate than what I would earn at my LBS for the same amount of time. Many of the students are bead virgins & don't know what a head pin is. I had expected folks w/ a bit of experience, so I was surprised at what level I got. Even students who claimed to have done some beading were really very inexperienced.
sher
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Pisces
- Joined on 10-16-2005
- 'Round Philly
- Posts 260
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Re: Students at Different Levels Questions
Kits... I considered making kits but then realized how incredibly time-consuming that would be. Also, I had no way to know what level the students taking the courses would be. In a way, it's good for them to be learning their way around the local LBSs & chain stores so they'll know where to look when the course is over. But students have different schedules & many bead stores are not open on Mondays when my class is held, so they panic if they've left their buying till the last minute.
Next semester I plan to charge a "lab fee" of $10 so I can gather some of the less common items & have them on hand. Waxed linen is not too common yet & I could have sold them eight 1-yard pieces from a neutral color spool, which is what I plan to do in the future.
This past week I got a call from the education director that some students had complained about the price of supplies. WHAT? That shocked me. People taking classes at their LBS know from the seeing the project that it's gonna cost them some money. If you're brand new to Jewelry World & own nothing in that category, you've got to purchase basics as well as items for the current project. I even tell them in the course description that they can expect to buy items every week for each project. Maybe they have no idea what this hobby costs?
I've tried to list substitutes for the pricier items on the project lists. But rattail does NOT look the same as rolled silk in a kumihimo braid. Not even close. They can easily substitute a SP or pewter cone for a SS cone, but that takes extra time to find them in the right size. They can use German silver instead of sterling, but they have to go to a store that carries it. Some have substituted copper in heavy gauge wire.
I have come to believe that the 16yo & the 60yo are both dyslexic. The kumihimo braid only involved two moves, but they were really having trouble, something I hadn't seen when I've taught it before. The older woman told me that she was a "visual-kinesthetic learner" & had taught LD classes when she worked. The teen coulld not do simple sequencing. During every single class I've had w/ the teen, she wails "I'm lost" at least once if not more. That means I have to spend tons of time w/ her to the detriment of the others. And neither of them could learn how to do a simple wrapped loop. Over & over I demonstrated, even moving their hands, phrasing what I was showing in different ways. I'm still not sure they've got it down.
Towards the end of class, I generally go over what they'll need for next week, where to buy things, & what to prepare. Neither of my "problem children" bring a pad & pencil no matter how many times they're reminded. They're usually not paying attention when I make the announcement. They don't read their emails where instructions are repeated. At some point, I have to take a stand & say it's not my responsibility anymore. Good grief, if I sign up for a sampler course, I know I have to bring in different stuff every week & I hope I'd pay attention when it's being explained. Is that too much to expect?
This class is eating up two days of my week for 3 hours of class time w/ 2 hours of driving. For the last 4 weeker w/ 3 students, I got paid a whopping $171! Something's gotta get easier!
sher
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trysch
- Joined on 06-15-2004
- Posts 3,054
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Re: Students at Different Levels Questions
Sounds like you have a serious lack of communication. You might want to use something like B&B does for student level -- and make sure that students are aware that they need to be at a certain level before they take the class. As to kits -- yep, they are a PITA, but if you require a kit in your class, you know that students had the right supplies -- at least at the beginning of the class! Make a profit with your kit; you need the profit for the time it takes you to make the kit. Have 3 or 4 color ways available -- red, black, green, blue -- and then if the students complain about the kit colors suggest that they are LEARNING and that anything they want to duplicate can be obtained at their LBS. If you have required kit fees, then your profit will increase. Your stress level will actually DECREASE, and your decreased level of stress may get more students into your classes at the LBS! Besides, if the kit fee is included in the class, you won't have the complaints about the costs of the supplies. Good luck!
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cnikita2
- Joined on 01-04-2004
- Posts 249
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Re: Students at Different Levels Questions
Sher,
I realize your post is a couple months old, how did it all turn out?
I wonder if the management of the center could have stepped in. Perhaps you could have asked them to talk with the parent of the teenager with regard to coming to class prepared.
That said, I agree with the others above. A kit is essential under the circumstances you have described. When you're teaching in a bead store, the staff is there to help students get the right supplies, etc., but with a community center, it's just what's listed in the description. And I agree with you that many people don't bother to read those carefully.
The other thing you have to consider is how the other students in the class feel, if all your time is taken up with the "problem" students. That consideration always makes me bolder in dealing with situations than maybe I would normally be, because I don't want to alienate the other students.
No suggestions on the Board member. No one on staff is going to want to take that on!
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Linelle

- Joined on 10-20-2006
- Santa Rosa, CA
- Posts 1,563
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Re: Students at Different Levels Questions
Sorry to jump in so late. I can only speak from the point of view of a student. I took my first bead class a little over a year ago to see if it was something I'd enjoy. It was! Our class was held at a community center, through my city's parks and rec department. The cost of the class included all materials. Pliers and wire cutters, etc. were provided for our use, but she had some basic 4-tool sets for sale for $20 and I think most in the class bought them. When I first saw the projects and materials, I thought, oh gag me. It was stuff I would never buy or choose to make for myself. But maybe it was a good thing, because you could learn technique without color or choices coming into play. I later took everything apart and recycled the beads. I definitely appreciated having the materials right there for me. There's always someone in every classroom situation who needs to be hand-held or who can't get it right. There was an adult at my table who couldn't not screw things up. She was otherwise smart and together, but she was utterly tone-deaf with her hands. I don't see how you can avoid that. If people need to take notes, I'd supply pencil and paper. My teacher was what I'd call old-school. When she wanted to show us a technique, like doing a crimp bead or a coiled loop, she'd say, okay, everyone come stand behind me and watch. Ten people crowding behind someone working on tiny things? Didn't work at all. It was a miracle I could figure it out. I'd include simple print outs so that people can refer to a step-by-step process. I realize this is all more work and expense for you, but I'd charge accordingly to recoup (and then some) all your costs.
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Pisces
- Joined on 10-16-2005
- 'Round Philly
- Posts 260
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Re: Students at Different Levels Questions
Hey, thanks for your interest! 
How did it all turn out? Well, 2 of the students were out of town for the last class, so that was quite a relief. Reading over my own posts again, I can see that I sure was fretting! The home schooler was NOT taking my class for class credit, which was something I'd been very worried about & felt overly responsible for. Whew! As far as talking w/ her mother -- I do it all the time since she works at the center, but she doesn't always give me straight answers about her daughter & her abilities. I have a lot more educational experience than the mom, who didn't go to college & doesn't have a teaching background. She may be more street-smart, but she isn't responding to my underlying questions.
I do try to balance my time w/ all the students. I have to actually tell the teenager to wait her turn when she interrupts me. I believe she gets anxious when she feels "lost". However, the board member is living in some alternative universe. First she tells me that she needs to learn hands-on, then she wants written instructions. Sorry, but she can get 'em after I'm published! If she only learns in her own nonstandard way, how can she expect me to compensate for that? Did I mention that she used to be an LD teacher?
I really feel like I'm learning sooo much from each class & each student. Then it's a question of being able to incorporate those experiences & insights for next time. And being fresh & open & friendly each & every week. Not too much to ask, right?
sher
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Pisces
- Joined on 10-16-2005
- 'Round Philly
- Posts 260
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Re: Students at Different Levels Questions
Linelle, I really do appreciate your comments from a student's point of view. Especially from a new student. Sometimes it's hard to remember back almost 20 years... 
In my situation I'd have to add a materials fee [paid up front to the center by all] &/or a kit fee [paid by those who choose to buy]. I hope I'm getting wiser. The upcoming lampwork class has a materials fee for a pound of rods so everyone will have a selection. It's good deal, so I'm not too worried that someone will complain about having to buy more glass & colors. But ack! I'm having to re-negotiate the kit fee w/ the vendor for that class, which is a hefty amount for a new student. [$125]
I goofed w/ the winter wire class & didn't charge the materials fee. I guess I keep trying to be so even-handed that I'm kicking myself in the butt. But I plan to have different gauges of wire on hand for a fee. I'm looking into plier sets too. Should I get a medium quality set for a few bucks more or go w/ the cheapest? I still need to have that conversation w/ the center about general tools for group use.
The best way I can recoup some of my expenses is to have my classes fill up. Last summer I was new at the center & no one knew my name to recommend me. Now the office people know me as well as quite a few teachers in other media. I had my work in their juried holiday show. Word of mouth is the best! And I'm still scrambling...
I love your comment about the woman who was "tone deaf w/ her hands"! What a hoot! Such an accurate observation. I adore writing on the chalkboard [remnants of Catholic school?] & I attempt to use really large beads & make really BIG gestures when explaining things. I'd rather make a fool of myself than have someone not understand. Then I go around to help students who aren't getting the hang of it. Check in on their progress frequently. Make sure they're having fun.
Bottom line: I love teaching art to adults who want to learn! I just hope I can make a living at it.
sher
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cnikita2
- Joined on 01-04-2004
- Posts 249
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Re: Students at Different Levels Questions
I've taken a few classes with teachers who do it the "old-fashioned" way, by demonstrating. The most effective ones are those who demonstrate each step several times with a different (small) group of students each time. That way you don't have to crowd around, plus you can work at your own pace.
Sher- your classes sound great. Let me know if you ever plan to teach in the DC area. There are several LBSs around that have class space.
Carole
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cnikita2
- Joined on 01-04-2004
- Posts 249
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Re: Students at Different Levels Questions
Then there was the teacher who stood at the front demonstrating with large props (it was a wire-wrapping class). I would describe myself as an intermediate wire-worker, and I've taken literally dozens of classes on various topics, but I could not for the life of me follow what she was talking about. And I wasn't the only one - I could hear other people grumbling.
We were working on rings. Turns out when she said "front" and "back" she was thinking of the ring on a horizontal plane (the way it would lie on a table), and those of us that were confused were thinking of the ring on a vertical plane (the way you'd wear it). So "front" and "back" meant different things to her and to us. We thought she was crazy, as you might imagine, and she thought we were idiots.
Fortunately, she had assistants who came around and helped anyone in trouble, so it turned out okay.
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Pisces
- Joined on 10-16-2005
- 'Round Philly
- Posts 260
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Re: Students at Different Levels Questions
Carole,
What you're describing sounds like a very basic communications problem. That should not be happening at an intermediate level at all. She should have clarified her terms at the start of the class so everyone was on the same page. Maybe "shank", "palm side", "upper side", a variety of phrases so students could follow her directions.
Plus she should be checking for feedback to determine that most of the class is NOT lost. "Is everybody OK?" is an easy thing to say.
I tend to be a PITA for some teachers b/c I do speak up & say "I have no idea what you're talking about". I figure that 90% of the time, I'm not the only one. The other 10%, I may just be in outer space! I'm also not shy about reminding them what content they advertised for the class & "are we going to cover that?" This is especially true for classes at the big shows w/ big names that cost big bucks.
sher
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cnikita2
- Joined on 01-04-2004
- Posts 249
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Re: Students at Different Levels Questions
Sher,
The best part is, the class was a beginner class. The actual project turned out to be quite simple. It was just the miscommunication. I think also that the teacher was tired, as this was a 5-8pm class after a 9-4 class. A good portion of the later class had taken the earlier one, so they had got used to her teaching methods.
She did realize that people were lost. She kept saying, am I speaking Swahili? (Some people were offended by that.) As it turned out, she might as well have been :-).
As I say, I think she was tired, and she did have assistants to help us out, and she did try to be nicer towards the end. It's just a lesson to me to always check personally with students to make sure they understand.
Carole
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