Wire working

Re: How do I prevent marking st. silver when making loops?

dressagewoman — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 22:03:29 GMT

My understanding is that Argentium silver is a form of sterling silver, with germanium replacing some copper in the alloy. The germanium oxidizes readily and actually prevents the silver itself from oxidizing, which retards both tarnish and firescale. I don't see how traditional sterling could contaminate it since traditional sterling contains nothing Argentium does not. Can you explain this?

Here is the website of the manufacturer of Argentium silver: http://www.argentiumsilver.com/home

Re: How do I prevent marking st. silver when making loops?

Preston — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 20:28:05 GMT

John, I am a wire working by trade and have been using argentium since it fist arrived and was a distributor for it at one time when I was in the supply business. And we had complaint after complaint by other customers that had the same problem. But I'm curious about a few things maybe you could clarify.

#1. How do you know what style and brand of tumbler i have? maybe its from the same China company that put the melamine in the milk? Is it milk or is it melamine?

#2. If a supply company or rather wholesaler in a third world country (and that's where 95% of them come from) says its rubber lined. Is it rubber? Just cause its black don't mean its rubber!

#3. Could it be a black plastic or there version of rubber that contains an unknown and unmentioned chemical?

#4. Now it is clearly stated by any company who handles it ---- that if your Argentium sheet or wire makes any contact with sterling silver sheet or wire, or a cloth used for sterling silver or a buffer used for sterling silver, IT WILL CONTAMINATE THE ARGENTIUM. Could it be possible that other substances or chemicals do the same thing? Or is sterling silver the only substance in the world that contaminates it?

#5. I'm just curious as to how you know so much about the tumbler I use or the composition of the liner used?

Just a side note do you sell Argentium?

Thanks Preston

www.wirejewelrybootcamp.com

Re: How do I prevent marking st. silver when making loops?

John — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 19:56:34 GMT

I beg to differ. Argentium sterling silver does not behave any different than common sterling silver in a rubber lined tumbler. Any black or tarnish is most likely caused by dirt in the liquid that commonly comes from not changing the water and burnishing compound often enough.

Re: How do I prevent marking st. silver when making loops?

Preston — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 18:50:57 GMT

I agree with the crowd that tools are maybe not your problem but rather technique and that eventually corrects itself. BUT if you work with sterling and i don't care how bad the nick is. Gather up your parts, findings, pendants etc and throw them all into a single or double barrel tumbler with almost any kind of shot. Turn it on and forget it for about 3 hours and if that's not enough turn it on for another 3 hours. When you take it out there won't be a scratch on it guaranteed!

For a great deal on a tumbler try Harbor Freight they have them under $40 and the double barrel is only $49. Try this link:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=90979

NOTE; I no longer use Argentium silver wire in any rubber lined tumbler as the silver argentium has some peculiar properties and will turn black and sometimes gold!

Preston

www.wirejewelrybootcamp.com

Re: How do I prevent marking st. silver when making loops?

dressagewoman — Tue, 16 Dec 2008 00:17:50 GMT

FWIW I got some of the tool magic and I like it! It makes a nice thin coating, and it's nonslip as well.

Re: How do I prevent marking st. silver when making loops?

Addie Kidd — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 20:04:41 GMT

I've used Tool Magic before and really like it, especially for wires that scratch such as titanium, niobium, or the Artistic wire that you mentioned.

Of course it won't keep all dents at bay. But it will soften the edges of any dent, and it definitely prevents scratches.

You dip the jaws of the pliers in the liquid rubber and then hang/prop them up to dry. For more cushioning, you may need more than one coat. As you use the pliers the rubber coating will eventually wear down. When it's done, simply tug the remaining rubber off your pliers and they're good as new. You can re-dip as many times as you like.

Good Luck!

~Addie~

Re: How do I prevent marking st. silver when making loops?

Bentiron — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 18:28:15 GMT

On your cheap tools if you give them a good polishing you will save yourself a lot of grief. It does take a little effort but it is worth the effort. Start with a fine sandpaper and then finish with the polishing wheel. The finish you want is a highly reflective.surface. I like to re-purpose pliers for various tasks so they always need a polish after that.

Re: How do I prevent marking st. silver when making loops?

dressagewoman — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 17:34:09 GMT

I'm resurrecting this thread because I'm curious about how well the "Tool Magic" stuff works.

I don't have too much trouble with my sterling wire, but I just completed a necklace for my SIL for Xmas that uses a lot of purple "Artisitic Wire" and I hesitate to admit how many links and jump rings I either discarded or tried to touch up with permanent marker due to marring the coating on the wire. I think it was a good learning experience because I probably do mar my silver a llittle too, it's just less noticible.

I wound up using my nylon jaw pliers as much as possible, and I had no problem with the round nose pliers marking the wire, but every time I wanted to use the chain nose pliers I had to be super super careful. If I'm going to work with this stuff, should I try some "Tool Magic" on a pair of chain nose plliers? Is it permanent, or does it need to be renewed?

Also, my chain nose pliers are pretty cheap, they came in a kit I got when I was just beginning and I've replaced many of the other pliers in it. How likely is it that a better polished pair would eliminate the problem?

Re: How do I prevent marking st. silver when making loops?

holaday — Sun, 09 Sep 2007 18:34:12 GMT

Hi,

Higher priced (better) pliers usually do have a better polish and smoother edges, and this can make a difference. Softer wire is more easily marked, but I usally buy dead soft in order to make the forming process easier on my hands.

What style plier are you using? Round nose, flat nose, chain nose, etc.? Where are the marks? On the outside of the curve on a loop? For forming wire I mostly use a forming plier. One nose round, the other flat and tapered. I like the one from Rio (they have several different ones in their tool catalog) that has the flat nose very narrow at the tip. Just under $20 last time I checked. Nice for forming smaller loops without running into the edge of the flat nose. I use them on wire up to 16 gauge and have a larger, heavier forming plier for 14 gauge and larger wire. Forming pliers are also made with one half-round nose and the other nose flat. These are great if you are making rings for the finger.

Carol

Re: How do I prevent marking st. silver when making loops?

piecesofclass — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 19:25:52 GMT

Hi Linda, Make sure you're holding the wire straight on and not at an angle, also masking tape on the jaws of your pliers work in a pinch.

Leanne

Re: How do I prevent marking st. silver when making loops?

chloe7 — Wed, 29 Aug 2007 02:26:38 GMT

Thanks sparklebee !

Re: How do I prevent marking st. silver when making loops?

chloe7 — Wed, 29 Aug 2007 02:21:54 GMT

Jilla,

Thanks for your reply.

Guess I will have to check my 'technique'.

Linda

Re: How do I prevent marking st. silver when making loops?

sparklebee — Wed, 29 Aug 2007 02:16:06 GMT

great advice from Jill. also, you can use nylon jaw pliers for certain tasks. and, there is some stuff you can dip your tools in to give a protective coating. called tool magic I think.

Re: How do I prevent marking st. silver when making loops?

jilla — Wed, 29 Aug 2007 00:18:24 GMT

Well, there are some things you could take a look at.

Check your grip. You might be gripping too hard.

Is your motion smooth? Maybe practice with junk wire a few more times to get a smooth motion.

Use the tools to grip, but use your fingers to move the wire into the shape you want. This will minimize the degree to which the wire will come in contact with the sharp edges of your pliers.

Are you using the RIGHT tool for each part of the task?

Your tools don't have teeth, right? They're smooth on the inside of the jaws?

If the sides of the jaws are real sharp you can file those edges a bit. But there's no substitution for good technique.

As you are making a loop, pay attention to the position of the wire relative to the jaws of the pliers - there could be a part of the process where they aren't lined up well, causing the pliers to put pressure where you don't want it.

I think I'd take a look at the loops you've done already to see if the marks are showing up in the same places with any consistency. That should tell you which part of the process you need to focus on in terms of making modifications.

I sure hope this helps - if not, perhaps you could post a pic of a bad loop for us to see and then we can focus on that part of it.

How do I prevent marking st. silver when making loops?

chloe7 — Tue, 28 Aug 2007 22:25:17 GMT

No matter what gauge wire I use or which tools I always seem to leave marks on the loops and links.

I use sterling silver for just about everything. Is there a certain gauge & hardness that works best for loops & links?

The tools I use are mid priced. Are more expensive ones better?

I would appreciate any help on this.

Linda